Ep. 39: Unlocking Hand Health: The Importance of Grip Muscles with Dr. Terry Zachary

Maria Mayes: [00:00:00] Well, welcome back Chakras and Chardonnay listeners. I'm so grateful to be back with you again, and I'm really excited about my guest today. I have with me Dr. Terry Zachary. So, Terry, I'm so grateful to have you on the show. Do you mind sharing a little bit about your background and the work that you do 

Terry Zackary: with the listeners?

Yeah, I'd love to. And, uh, first of all, Maria, thanks for having me on, uh, really like what you're doing and, uh, uh, really honored to speak to your audience. And so my background is, uh, I always to introduce myself. I was, when I was a kid, I was basically a sports junkie. I really enjoyed being Canadian. I started out with hockey pretty much the way many Canadian males do it and females.

So hockey was kind of my first interest, um, as I got a little bit older and, you know, examine a few more sports, I really got into golf a lot and basketball, but, but golf really won out, um, to, to introduce it that way as a golf, as you get better and better. [00:01:00] Demands a lot of, uh, looking at the intricacies of how your body moves and these different positions you're trying to achieve and, and why the ball goes this way and that way, et cetera.

So I, I became interested in the body and kind of when it came to time to choose my vocation, it was really natural for me to, uh, want to be a sports chiropractor, a sports chiropractor. I really learned a lot about how the body moves and seemed like a natural choice to me. And, and that took me into practice.

And then what. Uh, I never got rid of the golf itch. I played golf in college. I had a really good golf career in college. And, uh, it was at one point that my father passed away rather unexpectedly. Um, and I realized, you know, life doesn't go on forever. I am going to take a run at this. Uh, I had a real intuitive, uh, intuitive push to take a run at.

Playing professional golf. I felt I could do it. I was still competing at a high level. I did not make the PGA tour. That was my goal. Just Maria to, [00:02:00] to, uh, break the drama. But what did happen along the way, it was a blessing. I saw people, professional golfers. These were people that knew their golf swing very well.

They knew what they were doing. They knew their equipment very well. They know knew most of their body very well, to be honest with you, but they were blind and, uh, basically ignorant in knowledge of their grip muscles. So as they got to know me and we traveled on the mini tours, um, I was approached. Many, many, many times for many different, uh, health problems or physical problems, but repetitive grip came up dozens and dozens of times.

Now the person, the, the, the professional golfer I was talking to, you might not have realized if they're saying, Hey, I've got this elbow problem or this carpal tunnel problem is sometimes the finger and thumb and wrist problems. They realize might be. grip associated, but because of my background with already being in practice, I knew a lot about repetitive grip injuries and it was just clear as day.

I understood the golf [00:03:00] swing. I understood what these players were doing regularly. And then when they came to me with these things, they didn't understand it was already clear as day. And, and I became a basically, um, Not to make the story endless, but I became a grip and a hand exercise specialist. And I've done it all the world, all around the world after the golf career kind of ended.

And we developed a product called hand master plus, uh, based on. Just having a necessity and waking up at three o'clock in the morning one morning and going like boom if I just do this Take out a squeeze item, which is most of what the golfers would be doing They'd either be doing nothing or they'd be squeezing something But they'd never do anything for the opening and spreading muscles where which are just as important, but they didn't understand that So three o'clock in the morning.

I came up with this idea Which is now the hand master plus and we're helping people around the world and I love what I do And I love talking to people about it Beautiful. 

Maria Mayes: Well, it's those three a. m. [00:04:00] ideas, right? That usually are the ones because we're in that stillness, right? We're in that quiet and we're in, um, we're allowing ourselves to create in that time.

So I love that and I'm so excited to hear more about because, you know, even for me, I'm not a golfer, never have been. Um, but I have started. I spent many a year on the keyboard and also through teaching and practicing yoga, I use my hands a lot within my practice and my teaching. So I'd love for you to share with the listeners a little bit more about how important, a little bit more about the anatomy.

Right, as well as how important it is. And then maybe a tip of how we can, put some of your exercises into practice today, because I think overall the population in general, with the amount of time that we're spending on our devices, we have, um, you we're using, we're evolving to use our hands in much different ways than likely they were naturally intended to be used.

[00:05:00] Correct. 

Terry Zackary: Yeah, I think, I think absolutely. Um, when we look, and that's, that's one of the things that kind of shocks myself, but I think when we're in our expertise, we, we, we understand things that we ex, we assume everybody understands for sure. Uh, and the, the hand muscles really struck me as very interesting everywhere, everywhere we go, because it wasn't just golf.

Then once, you know, once the mechanic, the grip. Imbalanced mechanics of golf were obvious to me. And I was outside of that of traveling with golfers. It was the same with tennis players. It was the same with gymnasts, gymnasts, you know, hockey players. I knew that already, but then we went on to musicians had the same problems.

Uh, going to the workplace, there was the same problems like dental hygienists and, uh, except, but, but many workplace situations, but hobbyists. You know, people that sew, people that paint, et cetera, et cetera. Gaming is a big deal, of course. And then as we get into the [00:06:00] smartphones, the computers, it's just gotten to be, to be where we're pulled every different direction.

The thing that happens is, and you'd think you, you know, most people that are really have a specific eye on health and performance would think. Well, there must be a lot of attention on these hand masks because they're, uh, they're involved in almost everything we connect to. And I think the thing that shocks people is that no, they're not.

It, and the reason I've thought about this for many years, why are people ignoring this area? And then we'll get into the anatomy a little bit is that I do think people Look at it and they see I am gripping something so therefore I am going to Put something in and practice that motion that I feel like I do the golfers would would take something and squeeze it 

Maria Mayes: I recall my just reminds my i'm getting flashbacks of my dad always at his desk would have one of those You know what I'm talking about?

I'm making like coiled items. Yeah. 

Terry Zackary: What are they called? They're, they're just [00:07:00] coiled grippers. Okay. 

Maria Mayes: Yes. Coil grippers. Yes. He would do that while he'd be, you know, on a call or something, just, you 

Terry Zackary: know. Yep. And, and if I was to speak to your dad at that point, which I, you know, at that point maybe I didn't know this stuff because at, at one point in my life, that's what I was taught too.

And then I went into, you go into school and you get into the specifics specific mechanics, and I would go to seminars where they'd talk about grip going like. Am I missing something? Why are, why are we only talking about grip, even at a high level, but what, what ends up happening and what I would compare it to Maria is if we almost have to take it out of, out of a different context, and if I said to you, somebody that is leaning forward all day, you know, doing whatever they're on an assembly line, let's say, and they're hunching forward on that.

And they did that all day. And they, you know, Had bad posture and they had bad posture and somebody came to you. The last thing you would tell them is I want you to slouch more. You would never give them that advice because obviously that's not going to work. It's [00:08:00] away from balance. It's exactly what repetitive gripping is.

We use, we use the muscle. So I'll explain why I think it's been overlooked for so long is that. You have entire professions, you have hand surgeons, you have hand therapists, entire professions dedicated to this area because it is very complicated. The origins, the insertions, the nerve innervations, the ligaments.

It is very complicated when you look at it. But if you look at the basic layout of it, and this is what we educate people on so that they can comprehend it and exercise properly and then take care of the area. We would tell them to just look at your fingers and you, from the tips of your fingers, if I look on the front of the tips of the fingers, tips of the thumb, muscles that close the hand, there's nine muscles that close the hand.

They basically are located on the front. of the fingers, thumb, hand, wrist, carpal tunnel, forearm, all the way to elbow. Those are the nine muscles that close. Most people are kind of aware that they'd say, [00:09:00] okay, I can understand that. But on the back of your hand, equally important in grip is there's nine muscles that are attached to your fingers, thumb, hand, wrist, and elbow.

forearm all the way down to your elbow, the outside of your elbow that open and spread. You can almost put your hand on the meat of the back of your, of your forearm, open and spread your finger and you'll feel that tighten up on the back there. So just proof that they're back there. Now, Maria, anytime I squeeze something, if I take a golf grip or I take a tennis racket or a guitar or whatever you have.

The nine muscles that close are being supported by those nine muscles that open. So it's a co contraction. Anytime you squeeze something. So if I go back to my professional golfer's days, they would be gripping a golf club, shortening the flexor muscles all day as they're going just like posture, right?

They're shortening their flexor muscles, but they're also creating static, uh, extensor muscles. And I don't want to get too complicated, [00:10:00] but if I was to train somebody, I would say, You need to take these if I'm going to be doing this all day, I want to train these muscles through their full natural range of motion so that you don't adapt into the imbalance of your daily grip habits.

Does that make 

Maria Mayes: sense? Yes, it does. So we're adapting into the imbalance. Yeah. 

Terry Zackary: And your body's smart. Your body is so smart. They're saying, well, Maria, and I'm not saying you're, if you were a golfer, if you were on the LPGA tour, I said, Maria, you're gripping the golf club every single day. So you've got two choices.

If you want to create strong, balanced hand muscles, you can either quick golf, which is not a good idea. If you've worked that long to, you know, get your career up or whatever, or you can choose to do something to offset the imbalance that is going to be created by all this repetitive gripping. And inevitably, of course, the athletes go, okay, tell me how to do that.

And that's, that's what we've made quite easy. So the last thing I'd say, so if people remember, if your audience remembers, you've got nine muscles that close the hand, you've got nine [00:11:00] muscles that open and spread the hand, they really will never do hand exercise wrong again. But there's one more step if, you know, as we're talking, so they get the whole grip concept, that you also have nine muscles in your, Forearms.

So your wrist and forearm that are going to position your hand. If you're on the computer all day, there'll be a little bit different muscles that you use. If you've got a golf club or a guitar or drums, or, um, you're a dental hygienist, or like, I won't say that all the time, you're a truck driver, you are on a, on an assembly line, or you're a trades worker, you're going to use different wrist muscles, so you're going to adapt into a different wrist position.

That's not going to be neutral. So, that's why I think people have strayed away from this area, is that we, we've never dumbed it down. And I will say there's nine muscles that close the hand, nine muscles that open and spread the hand, and nine muscles that control the position of the hand when you're in grip.

We can do an exercise, I [00:12:00] can do even a simple exercise with your audience, but that's the basis of what we do with Handmaster Plus. We do an exercise where it's one continuous exercise and you can keep those muscles strong and long and balanced. And the other benefit through that is just like any other part of your body, when you take it through a full range of motion, your body naturally says, Okay, now Terry's actually doing this exercise all day.

Uh, through full range of motion, I'm going to increase the blood flow, you know, Increase the lymph drainage and I'm going to make that area more efficient because that's the real daily environment and your body adapts perfectly to your daily environment. So that's what we want to do is bring good habits into people once they understand the brilliance of this design of the body of grip.

Now they can just do exactly, they can, they can, um, work with that design and keep themselves strong and healthy and actually improve their grip strength and improve their [00:13:00] performance and virtually eliminate the repetitive grip injuries that I've seen for 20 years over and over this, the same in every grip pursuit.

Maria Mayes: Wow, that's so fascinating and something that just came up for me. I'm just wondering, you know, with a lot of folks who are starting to experience symptoms of arthritis, which oftentimes, you know, show up in the hands and inflammation that promotes that. Does this help that as well? 

Terry Zackary: Yeah, absolutely. Um, it's a very good question.

You know, based on that long, you know, that long talk of the mechanics, what we do inevitably is most arthritis that we're going to hear of is wear and tear arthritis. So, uh, if I'm again, I'll go back to, I'll talk about somebody that might be have a paintbrush, maybe a real extreme example. They're going through a very small range of motion.

They're using very small range of the surface of all their joints. You think of all the finger and thumb joints. I mean, there's many of them, but now they're working on, on a small range of [00:14:00] motion of those joints. That's the first thing. That's putting a lot of wear and tear on one small area of the joints.

But the second thing that they, that what ends up happening with this repetitive gripping situation is they don't stimulate proper blood flow and proper nutrients. If I'm repetitive gripping all day, I'm going to have a little bit of blood flow, but realistically, all the muscles are going to shorten.

You're going to get very poor blood flow and lymph drainage and venous drainage away. What the blood flow does, as we know, is the blood flow is going to bring all your nutrients and your oxygen to the tissues and to the joint surfaces, and that's going to maintain you and repair. The body's a self healer.

It knows what to do, given the proper circumstances. If you're only using a small part of the joint, again, if you were a painter, Maria, the body's, your body's saying, well, Maria's just using this small part of her joint. I've got. You know, hair to grow, food to digest, hormones to balance. I've got a lot to do.

I'm not going to, we're not going to, you know, [00:15:00] spend time and energy and resources to bring blood flow to you. But once you start to exercise through a full natural range of motion, again, you don't develop into these, muscular imbalances. And the second thing is your body is always bringing nutrients, their blood flow away, because it's going to keep you healthy through your environment.

If you're doing a proper range of motion exercise, especially with 

Maria Mayes: resistance. Wow. I love that because it's really all about going from this contraction right into expansion. And that's true of everything within our life, from our emotions to our movement, everything. If we can look at Is this expanding me or is this contracting me?

And same is true here with the hands as you're describing. So it's just fascinating to me. What, can you take us through an exercise that we can do right now? 

Terry Zackary: Yeah. And I'll, I'll take you through the exercise for sure. And even to go on your last point there, Maria, a lot of people won't bring something like this up, but it is, the hands really [00:16:00] are when we talk, we do a lot of talks, uh, health and fit, you know, health and performance talks.

But the hands really are there really are a metaphor for life, you know, if we're only just Squeezing our hands as in taking in i'm just going to take take take take take and i'm never gonna eventually You know open up and give give give and this is what I like about podcasts like yourself You you have your experience you take in and now you open up your hands to share them with the rest of the world now You know, we all benefit when we all do that.

And so I love that metaphor. And what you hinted at, I think is super important. Um, but let's go to, let's go to some of these exercises because if I only squeeze, squeeze, squeeze, I'm going to come up with pain, physical pain, just like, you know, like that life metaphor. 

Maria Mayes: So. Absolutely. I love that metaphor. I love it.

And yeah, let's do it. Let's do 

Terry Zackary: the exercise. Yeah. So basically your, your audience, I mean, and just come along with me, Maria, all's we do is. I tell the people what they would normally think to do with the hands. You just [00:17:00] put your hands in front of you and you squeeze and you grip maybe for one second, just squeeze to what's a comfortable, you know, to what you feel comfortable with.

Then the most important thing, open and spread those hands. So when I talk about open and spread, and I'm going to, I'm going to say to do that for one second, but we're going to stick here for a little bit. You can see the carpal tunnel. We get a lot of questions about, and we taught, you know, people say, well, with carpal tunnel syndrome, we don't know what causes it.

We don't know it. In the carpal tunnel, actually you can exercise your hand. So the carpal tunnel thrives. So when I open and spread, those are the spreading muscles on the back of my hand, back inside of my hand, you see how wide that carpal tunnel is. If you can just, um, I know for the viewers, if you just look in the middle of your wrist, and there's a little bit of a canal there.

When it's open and spread, that canal is nice and wide, nice and open. But when I close my hand, or say if I took like a paintbrush or a crochet needle or something, you can feel how that cleavage is really [00:18:00] tightened. And that over time is what will really cause a decrease in the shutdown of the carpal tunnel.

Okay. Again, not enough blood flow and lymph drainage going through that carpal tunnel. Circulation is a big deal. If we don't have circulation, we're going to have problems. Anyways, that was a little aside to where if somebody was in a, in, in a, uh, situation or like say, uh, uh, a job or, uh, uh, pursuit or a hobby where there was lots of small muscle contraction, we basically give them that exercise, close the hand.

Open and spread the hand. 

Maria Mayes: So we're spreading our fingers out as wide as we almost like a backbend for the hand too, right? It's 

Terry Zackary: exactly what it is. It's an extension. It's like a low back extension. What would be for posture? That's exactly what we're doing for the hand. And in doing that, we open up that carpal tunnel and we strengthen the muscles that open and spread the hand, which is what supports the carpal tunnel.

Wide and it also because I'm taking my hand through its full range of motion You're gonna even by doing this [00:19:00] we can have this is one of our main exercises We basically just add the hand master plus in there and we add resistance to that Okay, anybody that hasn't done this exercise and maria, you'll probably speak to it.

You will feel your hands getting tired 

Maria Mayes: Especially in the back just by opening my hands as wide as possible and closing into a fist doing that repetitively, mindfully really extending. It's a whole different, um, sensation. I definitely feel I'm going to be sore tomorrow. 

Terry Zackary: Well, it's, and you, and technically these muscles are pretty small. The tendons are long. You won't get too sore like other exercises, 

Maria Mayes: but 

Terry Zackary: you're also really feel it. Yeah. But also even I know your audience is very, you know, if we're curious about life, all we're doing is we're just exercising the design that this body gave us. You can be a little bit wild or a little bit odd by these hands once you understand how they work.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Totally. So just closing for one opening and spreading. If you're looking to train the carpal tunnel, that's the whole exercise. Okay. We [00:20:00] generally work with the complete grip. So as we spoke about before, we also know there's nine muscles in the forearm. So you can close the hand for one.

open and spread the hand for one and we'll add a third factor to it is you're going to take the wrist through a full figure eight as wide as you can go while your hand's open. So you squeeze for one, open and spread for one, with your hand open do a figure eight through a full range of motion or maybe two figure eights and then close.

 Close, open and spread, figure eight. Okay. And again, you 

Maria Mayes: go both ways with a figure eight or just, you can go both ways. It's always hard for me to go that reverse 

Terry Zackary: way. Just like left and right hand. It's the same thing, but, but definitely what we're trying to do is get you to go through that full range of motion.

And a lot of times, you know, we won't get into too much mechanics, but if we're doing wrist extension, it'll be in one plane, we'll take a dumbbell and we'll do wrist extension and [00:21:00] then we'll do a wrist flexion, but we don't do very much in one plane. Okay. And then we might do some, uh, some supination pronation exercises, but we rarely do that in one plane, which is that's the way we exercise them.

But when we use a figure eight with resistance, you're talking three dimensions. You're going to train all those muscles. And the good thing about that is people that are busy will actually get the exercise done. Yeah. I 

Maria Mayes: mean, this is something we can just pause. Yep. A few minutes out of our workday and just stretch out these beautiful hands that are really how we interact with so much of the world.

I mean, we use our hands to communicate. We use our hands to eat. We use our hands to, um, clothes or so just, I mean, think about everything that we do in terms of our sensory of touch, right? It's our biggest, um, avenue for the touch point of our senses. And so it's just. Fascinating. So I've got a couple questions so one of the, when you did the supination [00:22:00] pronation here, one of the exercises my son's surgeon had him do, or the therapist had him do after he had, um, uh, some plates put in after, uh, two surgeries in one year, this kid had last year, um, but he used a hammer.

To just turn the arm open and turn the arm closed. And is that because that weight is going to allow it a little bit more resistance when you open it? 

Terry Zackary: Yes, that's exactly what it does. And a hammer that, and that's, uh, again, and there's, and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the exact, but with an exercise like that.

So hammer, you can also use a hammer for, for, uh, for radial deviation. All right. All right. Is it too much 

Maria Mayes: of a weight or is that okay? I mean, what's your thoughts on that? 

Terry Zackary: Yeah, I mean that that would have to be up to the individual and and his or her therapist to decide Then you always want to do appropriate resistance, right?

But in general the hammer is not too long There's a little bit of a weight and it's a little bit of a [00:23:00] lever, right? so the longer the hammer the some people will do things with sledgehammers as they're getting into advanced training and Again, my criticism of that always has been because we, we work with, uh, athletic trainers and we've worked with, uh, strong men and, uh, we, we just, we just worked with a fellow that's, uh, a deadlifter, a high end deadlifter and everything they do when they train.

And I'm not even against the training, but if I've got a hammer in my hand. What am I doing with those nine muscles? What am I doing with my grip muscles? It's one of those things, again, where you say, well, I'm exercising these muscles. Yes. When do you offset what you're doing to create this grip imbalance?

Because we'll find a lot of people saying, okay, my forearms getting a little bit better. And all of a sudden I'm saying, yeah, but you're also repetitively gripping your, with your finger muscles. So we work, we would work in with those types of teams and say, Yes. I like what you're doing. And we, you don't even have to train, change your protocol if it's working, [00:24:00] but you're going to create a repetitive grip injury. What we find now that we've be, we've become so acute to the hand muscles when we look at different situations. So somebody might say, and that's where we related to the story a little bit earlier about the professional golfer.

They would come to me with elbow with an elbow problem. Last thing in the world they would ever think is it has something to do with their grip. 

These imbalances make an injury more likely. So I don't want to get into that too much, but some people think, well, I've got this elbow thing. So therefore I'll do the supination, pronation extension, uh, flexion extension. Not a bad thought, but a lot of times, remember those, those finger muscles attach at the elbow, the attached, the flexors attached to the front, the extensors attached at the, at the outside, at the lateral side.

So a lot of times people say, that's what I'm going to do. And they forget. That the hand muscles may be causing that problem to begin 

Maria Mayes: with. Oh, I see. Yeah, we're all, I mean, everything's connected. It's a whole, right? And we, when we look at things from this holistic perspective, it can really [00:25:00] open up more avenues for empowering ourselves with that.

Knowledge, right? Exactly. 

Terry Zackary: Exactly. You have to do the complete area of the body. If we're going to look at an elbow, we have to look at all the things that factor into an elbow. And that's why elbows are so difficult. Is it really? Nobody's paying attention to repetitive grip aspect and how it leads to elbows thing, but that's, we're changing those opinions.

Yeah, 

Maria Mayes: so I've got two more questions for you. Well, I've got three, but two more specific to this. One is, it just reminds me of when you were showing the grip with the little tiny paintbrush. My father in law had a Frenchman's disease and it was from, I believe, that's what they referred to it, but it was from years of motorcycle riding.

Guitar and banjo playing. And so is that something that you've, I don't know if that's what it's called. That's what I remember it being called, but is that something that you see a lot in working with people too? 

Terry Zackary: Yes. I've actually never heard of that term. And I thought I've heard pretty much all of them.

What did you call it? I'm [00:26:00] sorry. It was Frenchman's. Frenchman's disease. Yeah, disease. Okay. No, I've never heard of that. I'll look it up, but it'll be again. There's a lot of times like, um, a lot of just, uh, like nowadays they, they call it like a Blackberry thumb, but now it's called a textures thumb and the mechanics are all the same.

Exactly the same mechanics, Maria, if they're going to be, especially, you know, and then he's playing banjo, uh, we've worked with, oh, just several. It's one of the thrills that I, I love music. I love music and I love sports, but we've worked with bands now that were bands that I idolized and lived, uh, like live through for many years.

And then all of a sudden we're meeting these bands and working with one's a hall of fame, rock band that I really loved. Well, now, 

Maria Mayes: can you share 

Terry Zackary: that? Or is that. Is that you know what? I'm not supposed to use names. Uh, no worries. No worries. No, it's I wish I could, but we asked about it. They're like, well, you really don't.

1's in the country music hall of fame too. And he used to be my favorite band. [00:27:00] I don't even know how to say that. Well, full 

Maria Mayes: circle moment. Right? When you can. Help people that you've idolized in that regard. So, yeah, yes, 

Terry Zackary: but getting back to your uncle, um, my father in law, but I'm sorry, your father in law getting back to your father in law.

Um, you said he played the banjo. What was the other thing that he did? Uh, road motorcycles, motorcycle riders. So again, absolutely the same exact same mechanics. And that's like I say, when I, when I saw, even before I saw the golf mechanics, Okay. I knew of them. I work with professional golfers in my practice in, in the Vancouver area, the tour came through and we had a lot of people we worked with.

We just had a bunch of different scattered exercises. And so we had already worked with musicians every time I go into that. And we saw, as I saw that with professional golfers, whenever you went into any grip, grip aspect, you talk about motorcycles, you're gripping, same thing, repetitive gripping. And once, you know, the mechanics.

nine muscles closed, nine muscles open and spread, [00:28:00] and then you have nine muscles that control the position. A motorbike, even different types of motorbikes would be different risk positions. But you ask, you have to ask your father in law if you want hand muscle balance. This Terry guy says you either quit riding motorcycles, Acknowledge the imbalance you're creating and do something to offset it.

I would never want somebody to quit their passions, but I do want their passions, not to lead to problems in the longterm. I don't want them to go paint their house and, or, you know, paint their fence and all that. Well, I just hurt myself now. No, you didn't. You've created that imbalance and the mechanics have been just waiting for an injury.

And we want to make sure that people understand. Other thing about it is there's studies now that will show Maria, several large studies. And one of the studies was even, um, focused on in the Washington Post, Washington Post in January is that grip strength is now.

[00:29:00] Directly correlated to life longevity. So there's even lots about that, that as I get my. Hand muscles stronger and stronger. I'm going to bring blood flow, more blood flow to the extremities. Uh, the lymph ducts drain just, you know, near the peripheral side, the proximal side of your shoulders. That's where the lymph ducts drain from.

So whenever I get increased, my, my, uh, peripheral blood flow, I'm likely going to increase the efficiency of the duct strain with net drains, the head, the body, the shoulders, the whole body of toxins. And that's, so, I think when we look holistically at all these things about your body, motorcycle riding, could that be a problem?

Yes, it can be. It's a, it's a thrill and it's something people love to do. Do not quit, but understand that you're bringing some limitations to your body by doing this for hours and hours in a day and do something to offset it. And you, you can enjoy life. Plus you can understand your body and [00:30:00] enjoy, enjoy keeping your body at its maximum health and fitness as well.

I don't want people to not do what they love to do, but I want them train their body properly for the rest of their life. 

Maria Mayes: Right. I love that. Yeah. So my father in law is riding motorcycles in the sky now, but I've got a husband and a son who could benefit from this information for sure. As can all of our listeners.

I mean, no matter if we are playing tennis, which makes me want to play tennis again, it's been a while. Golfing. Um, any of the activities or just performing our daily activities within our career where we're using these Hand muscles these beautiful gifts that we have right? Um in a repetitive motion.

This is just such valuable information. Thank you for sharing it Can you share with us where we can find you? Learn more about the services you offer learn more about the product 

Terry Zackary: Yeah, our website is called doczac. com. It's d o c z a c dot com. It's, uh, we've developed some just, we're health and fitness orientated.

We want to [00:31:00] share what we've learned with people. I am always available for any of your listeners at info at doczac. com. Uh, Info same same website and the anything that's asking for any kind of advice or opinion will always get to me So, uh, they they can they can feel free to ask questions I love that or if you want to get information on where the product's available.

There's there's information on there I will say in america kroger has been really great with us. So all the kroger stores you can go and ask by name Okay. Which is also Smith's and Lee's and something else, depending on what area of the States you are. So you can get it there, but you can go to our website and see where else.

And um, again, you can do that, just the exercise without resistance. But once you get to a certain point, the only thing you're changing is putting the hand master on. It's quite affordable. And again, instead of four or five exercises that I know most people will not do for long, they slip it on. You do the figure eight exercise.

You're. [00:32:00] Maybe a minute or two and you're gonna keep yourself healthy and performing well. 

Maria Mayes: Awesome. Well, we'll include those links in the show notes. And before I let you go, I have one more question for you, and that is, what type of wine do you like to mindfully enjoy, if any? 

Terry Zackary: Yes. I, I love wine. I think, uh, I'm, you know, I'm not a wino by any stretch, but I love a nice, I'm a, I'm a red wine fan.

In fact, I had a story about, uh. I think I spoke to you early about this, but I, I have a story about going to this place called Oliver, BC. It's near a Soyuz. It's in, it's in the interior of the West coast. I went to a, uh, winery called the Phantom. I think it's called just the Phantom. It's unbelievable place.

I've always liked red wine. I'm a San Giovese fan. 

Maria Mayes: Ooh, I love me some San Giovese 

Terry Zackary: as well. So, but I'm, I'm like a one glass of wine on some dinners and some days no wine, but uh, you know, phytonutrients is one glass of wine. I'm a health freak. I'm a bit of a nerd for [00:33:00] that. And so I really enjoy it as well.

But I also tried some whites and even a rose at this phantom. And I have always said, no, I'm a red person. And I was, I think I've limited myself as I talk about not limiting. 

Maria Mayes: Yeah. Well, tell me a little bit more if you don't mind. Um, with the Sangiovese, what, what is it about the, either the aroma or how it, uh, tastes on the palate that just really draws you in?

What's your favorite part about it? 

Terry Zackary: I think it just, like, I like, I'm a, I also pretty standard cab salve guy as well. It depends, but, but I'm, and I'll try a lot of different things. I like Things that are pretty dry and pretty deep as far as the wine was so, um, but the San Giovese is one where I know we had a, we had a certain bottle of wine that we would always, uh, take to parties and we just had never had a problem with it.

And everybody asked, what is this? And we don't even get that one anymore, actually. But, um, I just always think [00:34:00] just certain wines. I taste them. I'm, I'm not a huge wine connoisseur, but when there's a deep and dark and dry taste, um, some that just get you to wonder if I get any scent of a little acidic or vinegary, it's just like this.

I can, I, I seem to, to, uh, repel that pretty well, but, but the depth, I think the deeper, the deeper, the darker, the better. 

Maria Mayes: Deep dark and bold. Hello. I'm a fan of too. So, yeah. Okay. Beautiful. Well, it's been such a pleasure. Thank you so much, Terry, for sharing your wisdom and experience with our listeners and to all the listeners out there, do your hand exercises today.

You have no excuse. 

Terry Zackary: Maria. Thanks for having me and keep up the good work with the show. I love what you explore. It's it's, it's really fun to watch. 

Maria Mayes: Thank you so much.