Maria Mayes: [00:00:00] Welcome back Chakras and Chardonnay listeners. I am grateful to be back with you. And I have a special guest today that I hinted at in a recent podcast, and that is Julie Cardoza. So I'm super excited to have Julie with me today. She is not only an LMFT that has been doing a variety of work with clients in both the therapy space and the EMDR space, um, but also is the founder of HeartScapes.

And so her credential list is so long. I'll let you read about it in the show notes, and I'm sure she'll fill in the gaps where I left out. But this is a woman who is well versed in all things, , behavioral and mental health. And not only in the Uh, spoken word form, but truly in embodying and the physical form.

And that's why I'm really excited to have her on. So, um, Julie, thank you so much for being here. 

Julie Cardoza: Absolutely. [00:01:00] 

Maria Mayes: So I would love for you to fill in the gaps because you can share with the audience better than I can. Um, and it's more fun than reading off a bio. 

Julie Cardoza: So my background, let's see, I've been in the field of mental health.

for almost three decades. I'm also a registered yoga teacher and I study specifically for somatic regulation strategies and I have several trauma certifications along with polyvagal certifications and I also do EMDR and I'm a professional consultant. Um, but this is really about talking about Something that's more personal and something that I really love and that is kind of part of my midlife Transformation journey and that's kind of where I started Heartscapes

Kind of the quote unquote certificate that, that goes with that is studying for nine months with, , author and artist Day [00:02:00] Shilkrit, who, uh, wrote the book Morning Altars and also the book Hello, Goodbye, and it's all about nature, art, and ritual, and that's kind 

Maria Mayes: of 

Julie Cardoza: how Hearthscape 

Maria Mayes: started. Awesome. So I'm really excited to get into that.

And that is, you know, when we met, I don't know how many years ago, , through yoga, right, initially, and then to come to find out this shared love of nature, um, and with HeartScape specifically, we were able to do a workshop here in my backyard for a few people that are dear to me. And. It was such a transformative experience that is frankly hard to put into conversation.

It's something that you really, I think, have to experience, but we're going to try to put it into words to the point [00:03:00] where you're curious enough to, to learn more and explore, um, nature a little bit more fully. And so if we can kind of start there, like what was the The moment or the thing or the experience that pulled you into this new world of nature or same world of nature you've lived in your whole life, but all of a sudden experiencing it with another level of reverence and curiosity.

Julie Cardoza: Um, you know, it's, it's kind of a windy story, aren't they all? And what pulled me in is probably what pulls me into a lot of things, which is curiosity and is. Um, always been both a blessing and a curse in my life of having a lot of inquisitiveness. , which, you know, leads me down a lot of different paths.

But, , you know, in this case, it led me [00:04:00] to working a little bit more intentionally with nature and altars. Which I had been familiar with mostly through yoga practice, um, where we may in a yoga practice create a, uh, something called an altar, which sometimes that can be a scary word. , and be affiliated with thinking of it as a spiritual practice or something that's um, being utilized as an offering to a god, 

Maria Mayes: um, 

Julie Cardoza: or gods.

And certainly there can be that type of practice, but when you really get into the meaning of words, etymology of words, um, what altar means is to rise to God. It means to rise up, to bring into attention and intention, so that's really what the word alter means. Wow. Can you repeat that? Sorry. That's powerful.

I never knew that. Yeah. It literally means to, to raise up or rise up. And so it. pulls it [00:05:00] into your attention to meet with your intention. 

Maria Mayes: Oh, 

Julie Cardoza: I love it. So in yoga, you know, we use the phrase root to rise all the time and I had not really understood that word alter to mean that. , but we had utilized those in, um, my yoga journeys quite a bit and I really enjoy.

creating them as part of the practice, as part of the theme of the practice, and really having what I would call like a more three dimensional experience or maybe four dimensional experience, , because it's more about mind, body, soul, and spirit. So, um, I had that interest in altar work and I had, , been working with nature a little bit more and literally on a whim.

This is how a lot of my certifications go, uh, with that inquisitive mind is I had come across the Morning [00:06:00] Altars book and it was the same time they were opening the training and , literally because I couldn't schedule the workshop to just go to like an intensive one to two day workshop with Day, I said, Oh sure, I'll sign up for a nine month program.

Maria Mayes: Of course you did. So, and I can say that. So Julie's also become a dear friend of mine and we have some things in common, like jumping all in when our curious minds get us, um, opening a door, then we tend to just jump right through that door. So of course you signed up for the full teacher training. 

Julie Cardoza: He interviews all of the people that he, uh, mentors individually and accepting them into the program and, um, He was like, you've got great energy, and I was like, you've got great energy, and so it was, it was a deal.

Maria Mayes: Oh, very cool. 

Julie Cardoza: I had no idea what I had signed up for, and it always is a little bit [00:07:00] beyond words, the experience of it. And even the facilitation program itself, the challenge is often finding words, because It's not about the words. It's about the embodiment, and it's about the experience, and It's really about reconnecting with just very deep layers of yourself, of the world, and things that we've, you know, kind of forgotten as we're in a society that's so much more pulled into our intelligence and our, you know, cognitive mind, and so it kind of And that's where all of our words come from, you know, from that prefrontal cortex.

And this really brings you below that. So it's not surprising that words are hard to find. 

Maria Mayes: Yeah. Well, when you were just so, um, we're on Audio Not Video today, and Julie was pulling her hand down to draw him down, when she said, um, it brings us below that. And that is the, that is the feeling. It's [00:08:00] a, it's a coming to a grounded, Presence, where it opens your awareness even more, where you start to just notice details that when we're caught in our intellect, we're not able to experience.

That's right. So, I'd love for us to talk a little bit, maybe to talk a little bit about the process of Creating an altar specifically with elements of nature, whether it be flowers or leaves. 

Julie Cardoza: Yeah, and, just for, um, clarity too, I'll often interchange the words altar and mandala, and because I have a psychology background, mandala comes a lot from Carl Jung's work and represents more of a sense of a circle or unity, even though it may or may not be in the geometric shape of a circle. Okay. And [00:09:00] so I kind of tend to use those interchangeably.

They do have some differences in their meaning, um, and in kind of the approach with them. So, I just want to say that because I probably will end up Right. Interchanging those words. 

Maria Mayes: I think it's a really good point to emphasize that we wrap so much story around language. 

Mm hmm. 

The language and the story that we create around a word can change our actions, um, and so, mandala, alter, whatever feels most comfortable to you as a listener, roll with that.

Maria Mayes: Yeah. Take what works, leave what doesn't. 

Julie Cardoza: And I think I just, , you know, I tend towards that word, mandala, a little bit more because it just holds. A little bit different meaning for me and just kind of my own background in what I'm approaching in [00:10:00] facilitating. Um, but anyway, when we are working with this process, one of the first connection points is both reconnecting with your intuition and also connecting with the subtle intuition that lives all around us.

You know, plants and soil and air are all living forces, and we're in them all the time. Um, but we don't really interact with them in that way. And, , so the first thing, and this comes from, uh, the work of Robin Wall Kimmerer. And, uh, one of her, uh, best known books is Braiding Sweetgrass. But she's an amazing person to, you know, kind of learn about and get to know.

And she's a botanist that has, been really, exposing us to [00:11:00] indigenous practices more and more and the wisdom that's within those practices and that so much of that wisdom has been lost. But anyway, approaching, so learning how to approach nature as living. And so when we forage, the first thing is acknowledging that This is a life form that we're interacting with, and if I'm going to forage or take some leaves or, um, the flower, etc.,

it really is about connecting, if I can sense within my body, whether that's a yes, no, or maybe, and that I'm receiving from communication on a very subtle level from, you know, the living material of, of nature. And. That's such a deep practice because I think, you know, even human to human, we often are not [00:12:00] really thinking about that sense of embodiment and permission and integrity or sovereignty between beings.

So that's one of the first pieces is asking before taking. And 

Maria Mayes: like, let's take that in. Like, that is a big practice. Like, you have to be so fully present. To pause and ask, you have to be fully present. And most of the times, we're not. 

Julie Cardoza: No, we're usually not. And, um, so yes, to be able to slow down to that level of really Sensing and I encourage you, you know, to try that and see, and to get curious with a leaf or, uh, you know, I do this often in, uh, I, my husband jokes, he can't take me anywhere.

You know, we'll be in the grocery store parking lot and I'll get. [00:13:00] fascinated with like, you know, the trees or the bush or whatever might be around and I want, I'll be curious about it and want to see and want to look really close to a leaf or really close to a flower and see all of the intricacies within it.

And, you know, in our culture, we just take what we want. If I, and I have to work with that impulse. Because I'll be like, Oh, I really want to see that. I really want to look at it up close. Let me just break it off and see what it looks like. Right. I guess I want to study the pattern of it and I have to slow myself down.

That 

Maria Mayes: is, that is definitely one of the pieces that was very impactful for me. Yeah. So I consider myself a pretty present minded, self aware gal. But that pausing to ask, I mean, can you imagine a world where we all walked around and did that? Not only with. Plants, [00:14:00] every living being, whether it's a dog that you want to pet, or whether it's a person that you want to make eye contact with, I mean, yeah.

Julie Cardoza: And I could go into all of the details of the neuroscience and everything else about that, but, , yeah, it'd be a really different world. be a lot healthier. Right. In so many ways. So yeah, it's first being able to pause and, and start to develop that embodiment and that ability to slow down to much more organic rhythms.

Um, and the other is a gratitude practice. Uh, like giving gratitude before you take. And. Again, I find that is just such a respectful interaction that's transforming in life of sometimes I'm not appreciative of the things I pick up. Yeah, guilty as charged. Totally. Um. [00:15:00] But there's always something in it and, you know, ancient practices and, um, I'll try not to meander on a squirrel too far here.

But, one of the things I learned in the fall was this practice of wassailing. When they go out and they wake up the apple trees and apparently like in England, this is becoming, um, practiced again. Back in fashion? Yeah, back in fashion. Um, and it's a way of like waking up the trees and practicing community and they all sing and bang pots and all this kind of stuff.

Maria Mayes: You know what we're going to be doing next fall, everyone. 

Julie Cardoza: And I think so much of it is about, you know, of course, the community and the connection. Um, and so it really is this just like starting to be able to interact with the world around us. And so there's ancient practices and rituals and all kinds of cultures, , around [00:16:00] this.

It can be as silent as just that moment of gratitude before, , seeing if that yes, no, or maybe of the flower blooms, um, and saying, you know, gosh, you know, that plant has worked its life. to be able to produce that bloom. , so to take appreciation for that and get gratitude before. And as we know, gratitude is very transformative.

And, it's not like a false gratitude or forced gratitude. It's like an awakening that happens when you, you know, look at. 

Maria Mayes: Right. 

Julie Cardoza: And see it from a different lens. 

Maria Mayes: That's so, um, aligned, which of course it is, this is how the universe works, but in In one of the classes this morning, we were doing a walk and their topic in that IOP program was gratitude.

And I just asked everybody to observe how much easier it is to experience gratitude when you're noticing things in nature. But also that [00:17:00] we get in, a lot of gratitude practices become so rote, like, okay, I'm thankful for my family, I'm thankful for this, write it down. That's thinking gratitude, but being gratitude?

Yeah. Being gratitude. Yeah. Which you can. Do much more easily in my opinion when you're in an environment where you're just Observing this beautiful detail of the petal of a flower that's growing out of a crack in the concrete so So so fascinating. 

Julie Cardoza: Yeah, so the final rule with Foraging when we forage is take less than you think you need.

Maria Mayes: Okay, Costco toilet paper shoppers listen up 

Julie Cardoza: and I have learned so much in this practice about my own sense of scarcity and abundance and learning how to receive. 

Maria Mayes: Right. 

Julie Cardoza: And through that [00:18:00] practice in the last year than I would have ever imagined possible. I am often just fascinated with the abundance of one single flower.

 I don't need a whole lot more. And so I think being able to kind of come back to this principle of simplicity and subtlety and it's just shifts so much about my, you know, direct experience in the world on a day to day basis. 

Maria Mayes: Right. So, right. Um, and I'll just say as someone who's attended a workshop in my little piece of nature in my backyard is All of those pieces served the sacredness of the experience in different ways.

Mm-hmm . And that's the only way I can describe it. It was absolutely sacred and very transformational in that I cannot now walk into my [00:19:00] backyard without seeing something new, without seeing a new detail. 

Julie Cardoza: Mm-hmm . 

Maria Mayes: And when we can walk into each day with that kind of openness. To see what's new and exciting about the ordinary.

That's abundance. I think the abundance piece, that word in particular. 

Julie Cardoza: Mm hmm. 

Maria Mayes: Not only seeing it, but being it, from being able to be present with it, is, is probably one of the biggest takeaways, and why I've taken it into my daily practice now. 

Julie Cardoza: Yeah, and so, to kind of, Recap, I gave you the three steps of in foraging and whatever you collect and I so often find It's super interesting What I'll end up collecting If you look at day's work, [00:20:00] and it's this clearly Controlled art

And that's his style. And I think that's one of the things that can be really challenging is that we expect it to look like a perfect piece of art and is again one of our like big pressures of wanting it to look a certain way and while many things um are artistically or aesthetically pleasing, it's not about that.

It's about what does this collection of material now want to form? And I think that's for me where I really draw into that mandala work. So if I've gathered A number of leaves and, uh, maybe one bloom, maybe a pine cone, probably a seed pod, because I'm pretty fascinated with seed [00:21:00] pods. Um, I have a lot of them through my house.

And now I'm like, okay, do I, and I often, because I have some accessibility issues, I may or may not be able to work directly on the earth, but I also have a trait with soil, , that I'm also, I'm often creating on. , and I love to be able to go take a hike in nature and there's a whole other piece of ripple element that goes with that when you're able, you know, to, to give it away.

Um, and I'll talk about that or remind me to talk about that at the end. But like in the workshop, what happens more than that is you have this collection of things that you've been drawn to and now you're gonna sit down and make some type of shape and some type of composition and I can tell you it is never what is in my brain.

Maria Mayes: Um, 

Julie Cardoza: because it's not about what I'm thinking and I think that's part of the why it's not about [00:22:00] the words. , And they come in a certain form, or certain types of materials will want a specific way of relating. Um, and the pattern will emerge, and then it's like an insight. That's been this conversation with living material that carries deep meaning.

, and it's medicine. Mm. Mm hmm. You know, it's restorative, it is transformative, and it doesn't necessarily have a word. But it's that meeting, and this is what Hardscapes is really about, it's about the, the threshold, that point of where the inner landscape and the outer landscape meet. So And that's kind of what's happening [00:23:00] in a workshop, in a session, in a practice of this expression of something that's going on within you that you may or may not be aware of or is needing expression and, you know, coming into being in this outer world through this outer material.

And then part of the thing with the mandalas are Then working with change, because change, the only thing constant in life is change. And as someone who's worked in behavioral health for, you know, 30 years, we are always in that conversation, , in how we're doing with change. And we always want to try to control it.

But really what the nature practice of doing mandala is, it's so different. Um, You know, there's the foraging piece that's so different, the living piece, and there's the dying piece, the [00:24:00] impermanence. And our challenge as humans on this journey of working with change and impermanence, because sometimes within seconds, I still have no idea how Day does his mandalas.

He 

Maria Mayes: definitely doesn't have a pug, because My dog always seems to instantaneously walk through what I just created. 

Julie Cardoza: And if you ever think, like, making a beautiful, meticulous mandala in the living world, on the ground, in the elements, is an easy thing to do, try it. You will learn a lot of patience. Um, because you will learn how, , how quickly wind likes to play.

Maria Mayes: Right. 

Julie Cardoza: , how light likes to shift and it suddenly looks so different. Um, how there will be, you know, critters sometimes in your, one of my favorite mandalas I made was, I, there was a [00:25:00] surprise worm coming through the sunflower. , you know, it's just this ongoing conversation how quickly they change. That whole law of detachment 

Maria Mayes: is so.

So difficult to really embrace and something I've been personally working on for some time and Those, I mean, you never stop working on it, right? But the, this is such a beautiful practice and Sensing how it feels in the physical form to see your beautiful masterpiece just change 

Julie Cardoza: Mm hmm, 

Maria Mayes: and just just be present for that that alone can be Opening to curiosity of what what what you're holding, right?

Yeah Yeah, so it's so hard to describe this experience in a simple form because there's so many layers. 

Julie Cardoza: Yeah, 

Maria Mayes: yeah, so 

Julie Cardoza: many layers. Yeah, and I love creating and Leaving it out and seeing [00:26:00] what happens, you know when I'm making ones for myself at my house Then I can obviously observe that change

And there's other ones and this is, you know, it's challenging if you make something and that you really like. I made this one spiral, um, uh, kind of cycle of life spiral in Yosemite, uh, last Thanksgiving and it was really beautiful and I loved it and we'd take pictures and share and it's like and now I had to walk away from it and I don't have any idea who will see that, who will appreciate that, who will take it down, who will, you know, you know, Will an animal, will a human, um, you know, explore that.

And I, that sense of giving your part of creation and participating and letting it go. Um, [00:27:00] so, 

Maria Mayes: so amazing. Such a beautiful practice that I really encourage all the listeners to. Check out Julie's information in the show notes and really look at how you can step into practices like this. Because it really is one of those things where until you experience it, you just don't quite know how to describe it.

And you still don't know how to describe it after, but you know how to feel it. So, um, what if, if there's a way that someone who's listening is like, okay, this is interesting. Um, in addition to going in and checking out your resources and your website and whatnot, what's some like super simple practice that could put into play today?

Julie Cardoza: The simplest practice, I think, even without creating any type of mandala or altar, is the zoom in, zoom out, or practicing your wonder skills, because we forget to wonder [00:28:00] as we age. Kids are full of wonder and curiosity and all that 

Maria Mayes: vibrancy. 

Julie Cardoza: And we have access to it all the time. And we don't realize it.

So, like I mentioned, when I go to even a grocery store parking lot, I am looking at the bushes. Or, you know, whatever is in my line of sight. And I try to get really curious with it. Um, and notice the patterns and the shapes and look at it really close and Like I said, I, I'm okay with bugs, so it's like, is there anything tiny crawling on this?

Are there ants? Is there a ladybug? Is there, you know, anything that's a feather that's dancing in there that's, you know, really small and you would have just never noticed that feather. Um, and then zoom out and look at it as a big construct again and see the [00:29:00] wholeness of it. How that one leaf is, you know, part of a whole composition that creates that plant or shrub and how it creates a larger and larger context.

 So that's probably like the easiest practice of just coming into, you know, wonder and curiosity and, um, and it's so incredibly healthy for us. Right. It is. So calming, it is so regulating, and to take that moment's pause, you know, it's like taking a breath between sentences and just getting that little tiny receiving a little bit of energy.

Maria Mayes: It's so beautiful. Yeah. 

Julie Cardoza: So. 

Maria Mayes: I love it. So zoom out, [00:30:00] zoom in, zoom back out. And do it with wonder. I mean if we each just did that, take five today and do that. That's your marching orders if you're listening to this. Um, so beautiful. So we have a workshop coming up that we want to mention, um, which is up at a beautiful little boutique winery in the foothills here, Dorval Estate Winery.

That will be March 16th., we'll include a link to that in the show notes, but that is designed to offer this experience along with some mindful wine tasting, which you know I love. How, can they get a hold of you directly in terms of learning more about your offerings? I know you have an online course you recently launched.

So share, share that with us and we'll put it on the show notes, too. 

Julie Cardoza: Yeah, my website is HeartScapes LLC

It's all one word and you can go on there and see what different things I have to offer. I do have an online [00:31:00] course Right now that's just a self guided course of starting to work with some of these practices It also offers a little bit of that yoga and somatics and breath work as well And then we have our event coming up at Dorval and we'll be creating some mandalas and , also enjoying some wine and food pairings.

And I think, I'm so excited to see how all that, like, goes together. Because, you know, you're just awakening so much of your sensory system. Right. And that's so Just like restorative. Um, so that'll be interesting and then we also are going to be with Women making waves who are all about the ripple the connection and making other Connections because that's part of us as humans We really need to connect with each other just like that leaf is connected to the branch connected to [00:32:00] The other leaves that make the construct of the shrub and That's how we are and we need those connections as well.

So we've put together that workshop of, um, we call it the art of gathering. And, we'll be a theme of making some spring mandalas and the theme of renewal, 

Maria Mayes: um, 

Julie Cardoza: as we come into spring and the air element, um, and that freshness, although in California, it's coming a little early, 

Maria Mayes: but, uh, Yeah, to be renewed.

To be renewed. Well, yeah, and I'm so glad you pointed out Tyler's coming to join us and there's a I don't know the podcast episode, but if you do a search through the chakras and chardonnay list, she was on season one and all these things combined are going to be really exciting to explore. 

Julie Cardoza: So, 

Maria Mayes: um, before we guide [00:33:00] ourselves out with a little relaxation, I'm dying to know what your favorite type of wine to mindfully enjoy is.

Julie Cardoza: I have learned how to enjoy wine along with you by attending many of your workshops. I'm not a great connoisseur of wine. Um, I just love it. Had not been exposed to it a lot. I tend towards sweet wines, white wines, Riesling, Riesling, is that how you say it? And then Moscato. Those tend to be the ones, so if it's something light and fruity, you know, I tend to like that.

And I'm starting to Understand a little bit about the medium body bread is I think, um, I can't remember the word that we did. Yeah, yeah, Movedre, which was amazing. So, uh, I did a wine tasting experience. I was trying it on my own for once and celebrating my 11th anniversary [00:34:00] and trying to remember all my mindful consumption years.

Um. Yeah, so that's what 

Maria Mayes: I tend to drink. Well, we'll definitely get more opportunities to go through that mindful process, especially soon at our workshop. So we would love you, if you are local, to come join us. It's March 16th. Julie's contact information and all the details will be in the show notes. And with that, I'm wondering if you'd be willing, Julie, since you are an amazing yoga teacher as well, just to lead us out in just maybe a few minutes of

Julie Cardoza: Yeah, so I'd invite you to take a breath and let it out in whatever feels natural. There's no right way, there's no wrong way, it's just the observation of the breath.

And I like to [00:35:00] do this little somatic exercise of actually opening eyes and taking them and sweeping them like a wave. around the room, a very slow wave of looking up in the middle and down, taking in all the different textures and shapes, taking in the different types of light where you see vibrancy and brilliance and where you see And even those little dark corners.

Noticing how it all is a whole. Both the light and the [00:36:00] shadow. The textures and the lack of texture. Smoothness. Exercising our eyes in this way. And really taking in what is around us

is a mindfulness tool. It's also very grounding. It's also really helps our body receive cues of what feels safe and connected and anchoring around us. It's something we often forget to do because we're on screen so often. Me too.

And then as we Kind of stop that little slow wave and [00:37:00] settling back in and checking in with curiosity about your breath. Is it any shift or change after doing this small tiny eye yoga practice?

And giving yourself grace and compassion for taking the time to do this today.

Maria Mayes: . So much. That felt so amazing. Thanks for listening. And need to do that more often, especially after a long day at the computer screen. So it's been such a joy to have you on. And I had to stop myself and really get present again when my mind kept going to, Ooh, Julie could come back on to talk about Polly Vagel.

Ooh, Julie could come back on to talk about this. So rest [00:38:00] assured we'll be back again. So thank you so much, Julie. I appreciate it. Thank you for offering all this wisdom to our listeners. . Thank 

you.